Typ43

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Aktuelle Zeit: 14 Nov 2018, 12:55

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 Betreff des Beitrags: Cold start valve, pressure problem.
BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 19:39 
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Praktikant
Praktikant

Registriert: 13 Sep 2017, 09:26
Beiträge: 47
Wohnort: Norway
Okey, so long story short.

Car: Audi 100 5E, Engine: WE 2.2 K-jet (Swedish model 1982)

Bought the car, hard to start, idles bad and runs bad.
Had it to a technician he said the wur was bad, replaced this and adjusted the timing, now the car runs good when engine is normal temprature, no issues.
Ok, but same problem with cold engine start, takes forever to fire, and idles badly, if i give it some pedal it dies instantly, asoon the engine gets a little warmer it runs fine.

So this is what i know:

Previous owner has deleted the EGR valve.
Fuel pump is changed to a none OEM, but should be better performing
All new fuel filters.

So i went ahead and checked the cold start valve.. dead.
So i checked the voltage from the starter and temp switch, all good.
Checked the fuel line in, fuel flowing here, all good.
Checked the valve on the bench using an adapter, air tube with some cleaner fluid in it and 12v, perfect umbrella spray pattern.

So i know the cold start valve is working and opening perfectly, i know it got 12v (For the time i am using direct battery current to test)
I know the lines is delivering fuel. So why aint it spraying it out?
Seems that i dont get any pressure in the feed line, i get fuel alright when i test it by it self, but when i have it connected to the cold start valve there is no pressure what so ever, i just get drops of fuel, as i was just holdning it up side down while its open.. but a pressure test on the cold start valve itself takes next to no pressure to make it spray, so there must be absolutly no pressure what so ever being build in the fuel line.
Where can this pressure go?

There is no leaks on the fuel head, filter or tubes, no wet spots etc.
New copper rings.

I was thinking that mby the egr delete has something to do with it, but i have no idea, also the not OEM fuel pump..
But then again if the pump was bad why is the car running perfectly when warm, also it should deliver better then the oem one, and a workshop has said the pump pressure is ok.
Any idea on my little mystery? :)


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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 20:28 
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VAG-Händler
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Registriert: 02 Jul 2014, 09:39
Beiträge: 913
Wohnort: 08525 Plauen
Hi Concker,

l'm understud, that
- the cold start ventil is working fine
- the line feed presure it's Ok

Do you know, that the cold start ventil was controlled within thermo time switch?
This element was functional, when the outdoor temperature under +10 Grad Celsius.
Either you must taken the start key.
In this moment, it was time controlled 12V on the cold start valve It's opening for this time and the fuel is getting out.

You can check the thermo switch with an check lamp on the voltage switch for cold start ventil.

best regards

_________________
Viele Grüße Carsten
Audi 100 GL 5E inarisilber EZ 02.1979

Audi A4 (B9) 2.0 TFSi ultra 190PS DSG Mondscheinblau Met. 16
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 03 VFL 02.18
Audi A4 (B5) 1.8 125PS 99 - 02.18
Audi A4 (B8) 1.8 TFSi 170PS '12 - 07.16
Audi A4 (B7) 1.8 TFSI 160PS 09 -12.
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 01-04VFL, 04-09NFL
VW Passat (3B) 98-01
Audi 80 (B4) 91-98, Gomeraperleffekt, Paradiesgrün
VW Polo 1.4 105PS Meerblau 12
VW Polo 1.4 80PS 2008
Wenn ein Traum 4 Räder hat, dann hat er auch 4 Ringe!


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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 20:56 
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VAG-Händler
VAG-Händler
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Registriert: 02 Jul 2014, 09:39
Beiträge: 913
Wohnort: 08525 Plauen
Audi4ever hat geschrieben:
Hi Concker,

l'm understud, that
- the cold start ventil is working fine
- the line feed presure it's Ok

Do you know, that the cold start ventil was controlled within thermo time switch?
This element was functional, when the outdoor temperature under +10 Grad Celsius.
Either you must taken the start key.
In this moment, it was time controlled 12V on the cold start valve It's opening for this time and the fuel is getting out.

You can check the thermo switch with an check lamp on the voltage switch for cold start ventil.

Additional:
The airflow have to opened for cold start process. In warm phase is closed the airflow.
The engine was running better, when the airflow is bypassing the air.

best regards

_________________
Viele Grüße Carsten
Audi 100 GL 5E inarisilber EZ 02.1979

Audi A4 (B9) 2.0 TFSi ultra 190PS DSG Mondscheinblau Met. 16
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 03 VFL 02.18
Audi A4 (B5) 1.8 125PS 99 - 02.18
Audi A4 (B8) 1.8 TFSi 170PS '12 - 07.16
Audi A4 (B7) 1.8 TFSI 160PS 09 -12.
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 01-04VFL, 04-09NFL
VW Passat (3B) 98-01
Audi 80 (B4) 91-98, Gomeraperleffekt, Paradiesgrün
VW Polo 1.4 105PS Meerblau 12
VW Polo 1.4 80PS 2008
Wenn ein Traum 4 Räder hat, dann hat er auch 4 Ringe!


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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 21:10 
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Seniorchef
Seniorchef
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Registriert: 26 Dez 2006, 21:36
Beiträge: 4467
Wohnort: Neuburg an der Donau
Hi,

I had very similar issues with two of my US cars which have a KA-Jet. It seems that they are very sensitive in regards to pressure issues, even more than the ‚normal‘ K—Jet.

Check the pressures in your system. You need feeding pressure and the pilot pressure. And you should check as well the pressure at the innate of the WUR. In a normal case, the pressure should be cold ~1 bar and warm ~3,5 bar. If this is not the case, this is your problem. The cold start valve is just giving few seconds some additional shots, not really making the big difference. But if your pressures are not in balance as they should, than you have a problem.

With my Urquattro (WX) I had the same problem and the high pilot pressure in cold (>4bar!) at the WUR unbalanced the system pressure in the distribution unit causing that any cold start was a total mess. Same with my 5000 Turbo!

Quick check: Take the filter out of the WUR ingate and you might have fixed the issue ... :wink:

Good luck 8)

_________________
Audi 100 CS 5E RHD Meteor EZ´82 ex-UK
Audi 100 GL 5E Saturn EZ´81 "Voll"
Audi 100 Avant CD 5E Heliosblau EZ´82 Generationenprojekt ex-Österreich
Audi 200 5T Alpinweiss EZ´80 aka "Papamobil"
Audi 200 5T Heliosblau EZ´83 ex-Schweiz
Audi 5000 turbo Gobi EZ´83 ex-US
Audi 4000 S quattro Alpinweiss EZ´84 ex-US
Audi Cabrio Mingblau Perleffekt EZ´97 "Mamamobil"
Audi quattro Amazonasblau EZ´83 ex-US
MB 350SE W116 Byzanzgold EZ´73
VW Passat Variant GT Syncro Lhasa EZ´87


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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 21:20 
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Praktikant
Praktikant

Registriert: 13 Sep 2017, 09:26
Beiträge: 47
Wohnort: Norway
Audi4ever hat geschrieben:
Hi Concker,

l'm understud, that
- the cold start ventil is working fine
- the line feed presure it's Ok

Do you know, that the cold start ventil was controlled within thermo time switch?
This element was functional, when the outdoor temperature under +10 Grad Celsius.
Either you must taken the start key.
In this moment, it was time controlled 12V on the cold start valve It's opening for this time and the fuel is getting out.

You can check the thermo switch with an check lamp on the voltage switch for cold start ventil.

best regards


The thermo switch is tested in cold condition, and its opening, warm its closing, aka its working.
The valve is tested on bench and is working fine with nice pressure.
The feed line contains fuel, but no pressure.

However it may be previous owner that has connected the fuel lines wrong when i look at it.

Bild

Yellow - From filter and pump
Blue - Cyl 1
Orange - Cyl 3
white - Cyl 4
purple - Cyl 5
Green - Cyl 2
Pink - Goes to WUR
Red - Cold start valve
Gray - Return to tank i belive
Brown - from WUR

This is how its connected pr now, but should not the brown line go to cold start, and red from WUR instead?


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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 22:51 
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VAG-Händler
VAG-Händler
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Registriert: 02 Jul 2014, 09:39
Beiträge: 913
Wohnort: 08525 Plauen
I'm think also , that have to change the brown line and red line.
On my pictures, it was exactly this connector with yours red mark to the WUR.
At the WUR are 2 connections. A big screw and a smaller screw for connection.
When you are mounting the brown marked cable on the red mark connection,
you must also connecting at the small connector at WUR.

_________________
Viele Grüße Carsten
Audi 100 GL 5E inarisilber EZ 02.1979

Audi A4 (B9) 2.0 TFSi ultra 190PS DSG Mondscheinblau Met. 16
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 03 VFL 02.18
Audi A4 (B5) 1.8 125PS 99 - 02.18
Audi A4 (B8) 1.8 TFSi 170PS '12 - 07.16
Audi A4 (B7) 1.8 TFSI 160PS 09 -12.
Audi A4 (B6) 1.8 130PS 01-04VFL, 04-09NFL
VW Passat (3B) 98-01
Audi 80 (B4) 91-98, Gomeraperleffekt, Paradiesgrün
VW Polo 1.4 105PS Meerblau 12
VW Polo 1.4 80PS 2008
Wenn ein Traum 4 Räder hat, dann hat er auch 4 Ringe!


Zuletzt geändert von Audi4ever am 05 Jan 2018, 23:36, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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BeitragVerfasst: 05 Jan 2018, 23:24 
Offline
Praktikant
Praktikant

Registriert: 13 Sep 2017, 09:26
Beiträge: 47
Wohnort: Norway
Audi4ever hat geschrieben:
I'm think also , that have to change the brown line and red line.
On my pictures, it was exactly this connector with yours red mark to the WUR.
At the WUR are 2 connections. A big screw and a smaller screw for connection.
When you mounting the brown marked cable on the red mark connection,
you must also connecting at the small connector at WUR.


Yeah i think we are into something :)
Will have a try first thing tomorrow, thanks!


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BeitragVerfasst: 06 Jan 2018, 14:03 
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Seniorchef
Seniorchef
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Registriert: 26 Dez 2006, 21:36
Beiträge: 4467
Wohnort: Neuburg an der Donau
Red: Return from WUR
Brown: Cold start valve
Purple: To WUR

That’s how it should be and if not, your pressures are screwed up...

_________________
Audi 100 CS 5E RHD Meteor EZ´82 ex-UK
Audi 100 GL 5E Saturn EZ´81 "Voll"
Audi 100 Avant CD 5E Heliosblau EZ´82 Generationenprojekt ex-Österreich
Audi 200 5T Alpinweiss EZ´80 aka "Papamobil"
Audi 200 5T Heliosblau EZ´83 ex-Schweiz
Audi 5000 turbo Gobi EZ´83 ex-US
Audi 4000 S quattro Alpinweiss EZ´84 ex-US
Audi Cabrio Mingblau Perleffekt EZ´97 "Mamamobil"
Audi quattro Amazonasblau EZ´83 ex-US
MB 350SE W116 Byzanzgold EZ´73
VW Passat Variant GT Syncro Lhasa EZ´87


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BeitragVerfasst: 06 Jan 2018, 15:11 
Offline
Praktikant
Praktikant

Registriert: 13 Sep 2017, 09:26
Beiträge: 47
Wohnort: Norway
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfJj9Ff ... e=youtu.be

Works alot better now :)
Brown to cold start valve
pink to wur
Red return from wur

Probably need to adjust the timing alittle but the engine sure sounds 10 times better now. :)


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